JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
If you've been on TikTok anytime in the past two years, chances are you've heard "Nasty."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NASTY")
TINASHE: (Singing) That I've been a nasty girl, nasty. I've been a nasty girl, nasty. I've been a nasty girl, nasty.
SUMMERS: The song was everywhere on social media.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NASTY")
TINASHE: (Singing) Nasty, nasty. Is somebody gonna match my freak? Is somebody gonna match my freak?
SUMMERS: Tinashe wrote and performed it.
TINASHE: Oh, that was a very validating experience.
SUMMERS: That validation was affirming, having come years after breaking from her label.
TINASHE: I think freedom was very empowering for me. It really allowed me to re-find a sense of self that I felt I was process of losing.
SUMMERS: She explores that sense of self on her latest album. It's called "Popstar."
TINASHE: To me, pop star is an energy. It's a persona, if you will. It's kind of like a space that you can step into. It lives outside of genre.
SUMMERS: That inspired her to explore different sounds like this song, "Nobody Wanna Dance Anymore."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "NOBODY WANNA DANCE ANYMORE")
TINASHE: (Singing) Nobody want to dance anymore. Nobody want to dance anymore, so keep clapping your hands if you want while I break a sweat, getting wet on the floor.
SUMMERS: That willingness to explore, she says it comes from the confidence she gained after going independent.
TINASHE: I think I had gone into a place mentally where I was comparing myself a lot and feeling like my own ideas weren't good enough. And I think that that was, like, a really dangerous and scary place for me to be.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CLOUD 9")
TINASHE: (Singing) I can't believe it. I never felt this way before.
And by being independent and by not answering to anyone and making what I really wanted to make, I was able to reaffirm for myself that my ideas were good ideas. And then from there, I was able to just expand upon that and get better and better.
SUMMERS: When we spoke, Tinashe told me more about her album, including "Too Easy," one of the lead singles.
(SOUNDBITE OF TINASHE SONG, "TOO EASY")
TINASHE: To me, "Too Easy" is this very confident and in-your-face song, but it also has kind of, like, a cheeky and almost sarcastic energy. So I find that song very layered in the sense that there's, you know, a layer of performance that goes into saying those things. And there's a layer of tongue-in-cheek that goes into what it means to be a pop star. And that as a concept is something that I'm really interested in.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TOO EASY")
TINASHE: (Singing) I feel like a celebrity. If you're mad, then go to therapy. But I...
And playing with the literal representation of what a pop star looks like and also subverting that, in a sense, or questioning that or bringing it to question about, like, what that means in 2026.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EMPTY STADIUM")
TINASHE: (Singing) Last night I saw a dream so vivid that I woke up sick. In an empty stadium, looking at the walls, seeing no exits.
SUMMERS: You've been in the business for a minute. I know you were a child actor. You were a major label star. You had that hit viral song with "Nasty," and now you're in a new era where you're sort of reveling in independence. What is something you feel like you can do at this moment with your music that an earlier version of you couldn't have done?
TINASHE: I think I've really come full circle in my sense of self as an artist. I really started off with a very DIY, independent mindset when I started creating music. I was writing music in my bedroom and releasing it online before I got signed. And so that was always where I felt the most pure. And then kind of having the experience of being signed to a major label and seeing, you know, the highs and lows of that experience, I - really kind of brought me to this point that I'm at now, which is back to having this confidence in myself and in the instinct that I have.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BRAINROT")
TINASHE: (Singing) Brainrot, brainrot, brainrot, brainrot Brainrot, brainrot, brainrot, brainrot, brainrot. I'm nothing but numb. Brainrot. So sick of fake love. Brainrot. Everywhere that I go, it's amazing. Guess money can't save me. I don't want to die no more.
Over the years, I've had to work to make sure that I always respect that instinct and bring that to the forefront and don't allow the noise or any input from the outside to kind of get in the way of that and to be very confident and just self-assured. And that's the energy that I think I really bring to "Popstar."
SUMMERS: You've described the album "Popstar" as playful and exploring a lot of different microsounds. Tell us about one song that really showcases that.
TINASHE: I think maybe "Heavy Weight."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HEAVY WEIGHT")
TINASHE: (Singing) I been, I been holding all this heavy weight. And I don't want to bend until I break. I can't carry it now.
It's the song at the end of the album, and I love playing with a song at the end that kind of switches the intention a bit and changes the vibe at the last second. I just think that's very interesting. And I wanted to, like, bring it down to a more intimate place. And there's also just, like, a acoustic, almost, like, twangy sense to that song which just feels kind of special within the context of this particular project.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CRASH OUT")
TINASHE: (Singing) Go, go, go, go, go, go.
SUMMERS: I want to talk about the song "Crash Out," which, I will just say, I love.
TINASHE: Thanks.
SUMMERS: You say the American dream is outdated. Say more about that. What do you mean?
TINASHE: That song, to me, is a song that represents the feeling of nonsensical kind of malaise that I feel a lot of people are experiencing. There's just so much going on in the world and in our country. And every single day, we're, like, faced with it and made to process it and grapple with it. And I think this album, "Popstar," touches on the American dream in a sense of, like, that was always being a pop star because it was, like, super shiny, and it was fame, and it was glitz and glam and being on red carpets and all of those things.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CRASH OUT")
TINASHE: (Singing) It's overrated. In a city full of people trying to make it. The American dream is outdated. Now they sitting on the...
I guess we've unpacked so much about the music industry and the entertainment industry, and it feels sometimes a bit - it's hard to find the sense in it all, I guess.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "POPSTAR")
TINASHE: (Singing) Don't fall in love with a pop star. Didn't know we'd get so far. Tell me, is it everything you thought it'd be? Work late night on a weekday.
SUMMERS: For the longtime fans, people who have stuck with you through the ins and outs of your career, what do you hope that they hear in this album that perhaps someone who's newer to your music might miss?
TINASHE: I hope that they will hear the sense of ownership in my exploration. I think there's a confidence in the exploration and an ease with the way that I played with different sounds, genres, feelings, performances of my own voice. And I think that in that playful, experimental kind of feeling, it also feels very me, and I think that my fans will recognize that and hopefully will see that that was very - I don't know - just kind of, like, true. I was just in the pocket.
SUMMERS: We have been speaking with singer Tinashe. Her album "Popstar" is out now. Thank you so much.
TINASHE: Thank you. That was really a pleasure talking to you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "POPSTAR")
TINASHE: (Singing) They all move here trying to make it. Growing up here, you get jaded. Social climbers ain't my type, but I do know how to fake it. I can make myself participate to get a seat at the table. Still, I dress it up, but it's all a mirage. Gonna park my 'Rari (ph) in my parents' garage. They romanticize it all 'cause the weather's always nice. If you want to sell your soul, then you got to pay the price like... Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
