LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: What do Jeffrey Epstein's victims want from the Trump administration? When the Department of Justice said it would not release its files on the disgraced financier and convicted sex offender, it outraged a good portion of the president's base. The administration shifted to damage control, and conspiracy theorists had something to talk about. The No. 2 official at the Justice Department, who is the president's former attorney, met with Ghislaine Maxwell, who is serving a 20-year sentence for helping Epstein sexually abuse children. Some raised concerns she could be seeking a deal. And before the news broke Monday that a federal judge in New York rejected a request by the Justice Department to unseal grand jury transcripts related to the criminal investigation of Maxwell, I spoke with Annie Farmer. She testified openly against both Epstein and Maxwell, saying they sexually abused her when she was 16 years old. And this conversation includes the discussion of sexual assault.
Annie, I've been thinking about you and so many others as Epstein and Maxwell are in the news so often right now, and just what that feels like for you as somebody who took the risk of publicly testifying and sharing what happened.
ANNIE FARMER: It has been a pretty exhausting few weeks, I'd say, as this has all come back up again. It is, you know, challenging anytime you are confronted over and over again with these images of individuals that have harmed you. But also just to feel so out of control as the story has evolved in these unexpected ways, and we are not being - it feels like we're not being considered and we're not being included.
FADEL: How have you felt as you've watched how the administration has handled all this?
FARMER: I'd say it's been very chaotic and left me and many others I've spoken with pretty anxious and sometimes pretty angry.
FADEL: And so you - nobody has consulted with you and others. Has anyone from the government approached you to ask what you want? Anything?
FARMER: No, not at all. I've reached out and spoken with one of the prosecutors, the one remaining prosecutor, SDNY, who was responsible for the, you know, guilty verdict for Ghislaine Maxwell. And it was clear to me that they were not even being involved in this process. And so, you know, I did put my concerns into a letter and sent that to Deputy Attorney General Blanche, and I haven't heard a response from that. And I know others have done the same - have written letters about their concerns about how this is all unfolding.
FADEL: What are your concerns?
FARMER: You know, one thing that seems very, very important is that Ghislaine Maxwell does not receive preferential treatment for any information that she provides. To have her be a part of this process and potentially trade information for a lesser sentence feels very wrong, not just for those of us directly involved in the trial, but for so many of the women that she harmed. That sends a very damaging message to our country.
FADEL: How do you think the Justice Department should approach Ghislaine Maxwell?
FARMER: With a lot of caution. I think, you know, they - the government charged her with perjury because they did not believe she was a reliable witness in the past. So I think there are plenty of other places that they could get information. They do not need to be getting it from her.
FADEL: Ghislaine Maxwell has been moved to a lower security prison. She's also met with a top DOJ official. Watching that happen, what's going through your mind?
FARMER: I was really in disbelief at how quickly that all unfolded. And, again, that there wasn't any sort of a heads up given to - you know, I spoke with other people that were involved, and I know that nobody received any kind of information about that before it happened.
FADEL: The grand jury papers.
FARMER: Yes.
FADEL: The request to unseal them. Something Maxwell does not want. Something that your lawyers have said very much that you do want. Why do you want those public, and what might be in them?
FARMER: Well, I think it goes beyond just the grand jury papers, right? What most people who have followed this case are interested in is more transparency about what happened, again, with those initial reports. Why were they not followed up on? And things like when my sister, Maria Farmer, reported to the FBI, she also reported that photos of hers had been stolen. She was a visual artist. She had taken photos of my younger sister and myself that were partially nude to paint from. You know, we don't ever know what happened to those photos. When I was in the courtroom for Jeffrey Epstein's bail hearing, I learned that they had found a lot of photos on his property. But no one ever followed up in any way, whether those might have included our photos, right? So there's, I think, just a lot of information that pertains to the survivor's individual experiences, whether there were other perpetrators or just understanding more about what went wrong here and who else might be involved.
FADEL: You're the only, I think, victim who testified with your name - right? - publicly in the Maxwell case?
FARMER: Right.
FADEL: And that takes a lot of bravery. If you want to share at all what happened to you and why, in this moment, you don't want to see Maxwell get a deal.
FARMER: When I was alone with Epstein and Maxwell at this ranch in New Mexico, you know, she's the one who started instructing me on this is how - you know, how we massage Jeffrey. And this is what a massage is like. So you should get undressed, and I can give you a massage. And then, you know, expose my body and touch me. And I think that people don't necessarily understand that she was not just involved in finding young women for Epstein, but she was also involved very much in the abuse and perpetrating those crimes herself. So, you know, she is not being blamed for someone else's crimes. She is serving a sentence for her own crimes, and I just want to make sure people remember that and understand that.
FADEL: Now, Maxwell's lawyers say releasing her documents, among the grand jury documents, would be a, quote, "intrusion into grand jury secrecy." That Epstein may be dead, but she is living and has due process rights. What do you make of that?
FARMER: I'm not surprised that they would be hesitant for more information to be revealed. That would, you know, paint her in a damning light. They're trying to rehab her image right now, and so people's testimony about the kinds of crimes she committed probably would not help with their goal.
FADEL: If there were one thing you wanted people to hear from you, what would it be?
FARMER: Just remembering that there are real individuals involved. These are their individual, very challenging experiences at the heart of this case, and that's had tremendous repercussions for people's lives. And so I think it's important to step back and try not to fall into that political game around the case and be clear that this is really about the abuse of power and about, you know, protecting young people and making sure that people are held accountable when they commit these types of crimes.
FADEL: That's Annie Farmer. Thank you so much for your time.
FARMER: Thank you.
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