A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
For more on this, we've called up Margus Tsahkna. He's the foreign minister of Estonia and was part of a meeting of the European Union's Foreign Affairs Council this week to discuss Russia-Ukraine peace talks. Estonia is one of five NATO member nations that shares a border with Russia. Foreign Minister, we just heard that there will be an emergency virtual summit between European leaders and President Trump. Will you or someone from Estonia be a part of that?
MARGUS TSAHKNA: We will be represented there by the president of Finland, Mr. Stubb. But our positions are very clear and very united. And we discussed our positions, as well, yesterday when we gathered at European Union - foreign ministers. And we stand behind Ukraine. And there's one exact thing what we are very sure is that there cannot be any kind of talks or agreements about Ukraine without Ukraine and also without Europe.
And the main thing is that we know exactly what Putin wants. Putin wants to eliminate the root causes, and the root causes for him was the collapse of Soviet Union. So we have witnessed from the past that he's - if he gets something, he's just moving forward in the future, as well. So I think that the main target, the main goal for this meeting, as well in Alaska, must be the unconditional ceasefire. And this is exactly, as well, what President Zelenskyy said. If Putin is ready to unconditional ceasefire and it will work, then we can start talking. But there cannot be any kind...
MARTÍNEZ: OK.
TSAHKNA: ...Of talks about Ukraine and Europe without us.
MARTÍNEZ: I saw a post that you made on X, where you wrote, if an aggressor gets what it wants, it only fuels their appetite. So, Foreign Minister, what are you afraid Vladimir Putin will get from President Trump?
TSAHKNA: I do hope that he won't get anything from President Trump, and as well President Trump has said he wants to see what Putin wants to get and what is in his mind. But we cannot see any kind of change of the plans or the goals of President Putin. And maybe it is even good that President Trump is meeting Putin and getting this understanding. But from European side, we have been very vocal. And we have a meeting as well with President Trump to explain that we are not going to support any kind of deals, any kind of asks that Putin is asking.
You know, we have this experience from the past as well. In 1938, there was a Munich meeting between Hitler and Chamberlain, and that was the momentum when deal was done, and Czechoslovakia was gone. But what came after was a full-scale second world war in Europe. So we understand exactly how Putin works. Putin started wars already 2007 and '18 - Georgia. And then the Ukraine war started 2014. And so we have proof as well from the past that Putin won't stop...
MARTÍNEZ: So you think we're seeing echoes and hearing echoes of World War II?
TSAHKNA: Not World War II. Maybe the World War II is already on. I don't know. We have 67 different military conflicts in the world. Maybe this is a new level. But what we see is that Putin won't stop. Putin will have a break to prepare for the next level somewhere else in Europe. So I think that in that question and point, we need to be on the same page with U.S. as well. Nobody is interested about that.
MARTÍNEZ: I mentioned that Estonia is one of five NATO nations that shares a border with Russia, and Estonia is as close to Moscow as almost a nation can get. How much do the people in Estonia worry that Russia would invade any first attack on NATO, that Estonia would be the first target?
TSAHKNA: We are not worried about that. As you said as well we have been living here a couple of thousands of years. So we know what is coming from East and we are ready. And we are a member of NATO. We have NATO troops here. Next year, we'll spend 5.4% of GDP for defense. So we are not worried about the attack against Estonia right now because all the troops are in Ukraine.
MARTÍNEZ: But the - in June - I'm sorry, Foreign Minister. In June, the Kremlin said that Estonia's stated readiness to host nuclear-capable jets threatens Russia. So, I mean, if Russia feels threatened by Estonia, why wouldn't you be more concerned?
TSAHKNA: This is the Putin's narrative that he's afraid of NATO. But be honest, NATO has never been aggressive organization. We are defensive organization. So - but if there is a willingness and need for the nuclear weapons in Estonian territory, which is militarily mountains (ph). We are ready, of course, to welcome them. But this is not about the threat - the Russia. Russia is a threat. Russia will remain a threat in the future as well. And we need to understand that if you give something to Putin, he's taking that and asking more and using military power for that. So unconditional ceasefire would be good start from Putin and then let's see what is going to happen.
MARTÍNEZ: So if the ceasefire does not come out of Friday's meeting, what is the next best step for you that comes out of this meeting on Friday?
TSAHKNA: Europe has increased heavily military and financial support to Ukraine, and also we established the extra sanctions about oil price cap a month ago. And what I really do expect is that if President Trump is getting this full knowledge about Putin's intentions, we will see the Graham package in power about the sanctions - the direct sanctions to Russia and also the secondary sanctions about these countries for making business about oil and gas with Russia. So I think that this will be the best results.
MARTÍNEZ: Margus Tsahkna is Estonia's foreign minister. Thank you very much for your time.
TSAHKNA: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
